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Sticky:Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 07:12:22 - [1] - Quote Kilab Gercias wrote: Dude, the Cov Ops is just the warp in for the snipers. He is already on grid :). Tracking a ceptor 130km out with a Tornado is possible :) Nah. With a tornado it isn't. Snipe HACs or T3s with remote tracking support are very much fine though. Also smartbombs on gates.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 07:26:55 - [2] - Quote Kah'Les wrote: All these high sec people.. so if you live in null sec you gone sit 28 hours each week with your smartbomb and tornado to stop people from harassing you... No, why? Do you show up with a full wrecking ball fleet to every reinforced PoS? Or do you just sit docked up in your station during your prime time while enemy roam outside is killing SBUs or disabling station services just to harass you and get a fight? As an active space owner all you have to do is cap beacons no more than some 2-4 times slower than the enemy and possibly gather up some responce fleet in half an hour. Miner Hottie wrote: What he said. It also doesn't really achieve anything much in terms of stopping the bees and if you really try too hard with a proper sniper watch the trolllolol 10mn Svipul get brought in. Good luck doojng anything but whining about that. I've actually ran the numbers and DPS graphs yesterday on the possible sneaky offenders (including fully linked 10mn T3 dessies OFC) and medium gun sized snipe counters (because large guns won't do for this job) . So no, 10mn svipul is counterable too.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 07:40:44 - [3] - Quote Kah'Les wrote: The whole thing is that right now one guy alone can't go and shot a SBU and promt a whole allaince to reacte to him. With this changes anyone that want to griefe can go out and promt a respons fleet and then just leave without any consequance. Then go and do it again 10 jumps away and rinse and repeat. That you have no understand of how risk aversing works is pretty anyoing. Then don't respond to him. Tomorrow he will have to return and do this **** again. To achieve any meaningful result he has to do up to 4 and a little times more work than you have do to negate his efforts. The question is - who's harassing who.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 07:51:56 - [4] - Quote Kah'Les wrote: [It's 1 timer and then he can take SOV... comn man read the ***** DEV blog before you start sperging your all over this place. He has to come 2 times. First time to put ** into reinforce. Second time he has to jump all over the constellation to win the structure, and you sure as hell will be notified. Basically your structures are automatically put into the first reinforce each day with the timer set to your prime time. The difference being you don't have to rep them back up if nobody comes to shoot them. And you don't have to grind endeless SBUs and hold black mesas around them while they online.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:00:35 - [5] - Quote Arrendis wrote: like I said: fleets active, dropping SBUs and hitting IHUBs, 23 hrs a day, 7 days a week, for a month solid. This will just make our lives easier - no need for all the dps to kill an ihub, only 1 timer instead of 2... And the thing stopping you from grinding literally everything with stealth bombers right here and now is? Or why don't you go and hellcamp some random NPC null station for a month solid? Don't tell me you can't. I've got news for you. You can come to a random cafe and steal all the sugar from the sugar bowl. Or **** in it. Or swap it for salt. Or washing powder. Or powdered laxative pills Technically there's nothing stopping you from doing any of that. There's nothing stopping CFC from messing with anyone in any kind of sov system because if push comes to shove you can just get a couple of thousand rifters and crash a node. If tomorrow the majority of active server population decides to grief me for funsies, there's nothing short summary bans that can stop them. The only question is why would they. Besides proving a point.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:09:32 - [6] - Quote Arrendis wrote: We didn't use bombers, for one. :) But technically you could. For the purpose of griefing you can do SB grinding ops bypassing gatecamps and denying actual fights. With current mechanics a fleet of SBs is as substitude for the idea of a fleet of trollceptors.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:18:54 - [7] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game. Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game? Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it?
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 05:16:14 - [8] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: Why should we defend our sov? Why should anyone defend their sov? Dunno, that's a mystery to me too. Why are you doing it right now? The proposed nullsec revamp does not change the value of sov (well, actually it does in a roundabout kind of way - by decreasing the value of supers). Which means that current sov holding entities would give the same answer to this question now as they would after the sov revamp. So you tell me, why do you guys stick to your sov? My hunch is, sov is valuable for 2 reasons - super construction and ISK printing. There is only one way to build supers, and that is to hold sov, but this is subject to change as supers should probably lose their value as the Final Solution to your sov problems. There are 3 major ways to print isk - incursions, blue loot and null bounties. All the other activities have their reward in loot, lp, whatever, anything but ISK. Incursions are quite limited. Only about 500 people on average can run incursions at any given point in time with an average ISK/h reward (pure ISK, not counting LP) somewhere about equal to that of a nullsec carrier ratter. And carrier ratting scales better. Blue loot took a nerfbat to the head earlier to the point that some major entities just left WH. And the thing is, isk is just as good a commodity as anything else. And now we are undersupplied with isk. Well, relative to what was before anyway. This is evidenced by many non-isk commodities heavily losing their isk value. Pirate battleships are going for less than 500m a hull now. The most profitable hisec LP stores (those that don't have lvl5 agents, like sisters) caved in. Exploration loot took a deep dive (dedspace mod prices folded at least in two in last 1,5-2 years). So you now have to slaughter about 2 times less poor rat crewmembers to afford shinies than you had to 2 years before, and an average hisec dedspace runner has to work 2 times more to earn the same isk (and that's not counting in the vastly increased competition after odyssey). So yes, you may leave sov all you want, but that will further increase the isk value (or decrease prices if you will. You can see it as an increase in competition in other economic activities driving their value down) making anom ratting more economically attractive.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 06:07:16 - [9] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Without sov, anom ratting also becomes a lot less scaleable etc, but you already know how ihubs work But if you leave sov, then it's up for grabs for anyone willing and able.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:44:59 - [10] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The 2 minute cycle time is too short, can be done at too long of a distance, and if it's available to frigates it does not give the defender any ability to respond to a pre-reinforced attack short of sitting on that structure literally all the time. It's not a 2 minute cycle time to cap a structure. It's a 2 minute cycle time to start capturing it. Which is, IMO, is good idea, because if you only want to use the entosis link to force defenders to undock and get a fight, you don't have to spend half an hour for that. The question is, how long is the actual capture time. If it's about half an hour, the defender actively living in the same constellation (which seems to be the intent behind the proposed system) has all the time to pull out his own trollceptor, and block your capture until he can form up a proper defence fleet to clear out the ninjas (and no, it's not as impossible as some people running in little circles waving their hands and shouting make it out to seem).
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:00:00 - [11] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over. In my personal experience even goons that take pride in their love to grief others give up on chasing random stragglers in a camped system in their own space well before the logoff timer runs out. If some random dude wants to spend all of his free time orbiting beacons without any fun or profit, the defender might as well put an alt on a trollceptor in the contested system and make the life of the so-called griefer an excersieze in futility.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:10:33 - [12] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep. If they have to sleep during their declared prime time, you've got to ask them some interesting questions.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 132	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:16:19 - [13] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time. It's not physically possible to be that bad at reading, isn't it? Quote: The new setting will then take effect and become the new daily vulnerability window. This will determine the time period within which all Sovereignty structures belonging to that alliance are vulnerable to be reinforced
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 132	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:21:18 - [14] - Quote Lurifax wrote: Thats a nice ihub you got there. Would be a shame if you lost it. We dont even have to manage rentel empires any more. We just have to sit in NPC space and send out mails. Congratulations. You finally mastered the proper way of renting out space. That's how stain guys were operating a couple of years ago. They made renters around stain pay monthly ransoms to be left alone.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 132	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:42:24 - [15] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So, pop the first cycle, leave, if it's not contested again in ten minutes, it's reinforced. Unless that sentence means that you have to cycle the whole thing for that time, which if that's the case, they should just say that then. Because the flowchart suggests that you have to do it once, and that the other timer is for the defender to respond with a contesting Entosis cycle. As far as I understand, The Module has a 2 minute spool up time after which it starts affecting the timer. So each time you enter the grid you have to spend at least 2 minutes on grid to start affecting the timer. If you leave the grid, the timer stops. If you return, you need to spool up for 2 minutes again. Now if there are two of you and one leaves, the other one continues to spin the timer, but if you return, activate the module and your buddy leaves immediately, the timer stops until your personal spin up timer passes. So you can't do a rewarp relay race, and each and every person willing to affect the timer HAS to spend at least 2 minutes on grid.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 132	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:47:50 - [16] - Quote afkalt wrote: Bottom box - No links active, progress paused. Either I'm wrong or that flowchart is misleading in what counts as an active Entosis link. That is, an entosis link is considered active AFTER it finished it's first cycle in an uninterruped sequence of it's own cycles.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 132	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:50:28 - [17] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: What I'd like it to be, is that the attacker needs to keep an active Entosis module for the entire capture period. But that is far from clear just from what I'm seeing in the blog. So if you're seeing otherwise, I'd like to see it too. The flowchart linked above (and in the original article) seems to imply that's the case.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 135	Posted - 2015.03.06 17:33:14 - [18] - Quote Gospadin wrote: Instead of using your own entosis link to pause his capture, just sensor damp him so he loses lock, and the whole thing should reset back to zero, right? 1) It's not given that active entosis ships will be susceptible to ewar. Might be like bastion. Then again, might be like hictors. 2) It's paused, not reset.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 135	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:27:43 - [19] - Quote I find the complaints about the 4h prime time window quite strange. Since essentially we have it even now for sov structures, only the window is 6h wide, not 4, and can be set per structure, not per alliance, which makes defending vast unoccupied areas easier (what this update is aimed to get rid of). But that is a technicality, since alliance is, well, a social construct. What's behind an alliance is a community, and an alliance is just a way to formalize the relationship. Not, strictly speaking, necessary. There are functioning examples of organized communities within EVE online not reliant on the organization opportunities provided by game mechanics (sans ingame chat channels and mailing lists). So splitting an alliance for shifting timer purposes does not take away from the community. Perhaps unfortunately, since big communities that try to alleviate internal conflicts (for some reason shooting blues is a crime, not a virtue) are pretty much the root of evil.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 135	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:53:23 - [20] - Quote Duffyman wrote: I have a question. Dev blog says build price of Sov lasers are 20 and 80m respectively. This leads me to assume that the Drifters will drop blueprints. So the real cost of the mods will be way higher than their build cost right? Does this influence the real worth of the mods or do you guys think that this bears little influence? Because Drifters are hard to kil... 1. It's not that given that drifters will drop BPCs. Can't have that much a limiter on such a core mechanic as SOV. Probably they will have NPC-sold BPOs and built mainly from PI products to control damage that will be caused to the PI market by removal of SBUs. 2. Drifters are notoriously easy to kill. It's true that you'll have to lose a single ship while killing a drifter (unless you drop caps on them), but you are free to choose what ship to lose. A single trash-fit atron with a couple of webs is more than enough to kill the first layer of shield and trigger the doomsday, after which a drifter is easier than some dedspace overseer ships.

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